Episode 257 - Choosing Vulnerability When You Don’t Have To with Tom Hsieh

Entrepreneurs often find themselves in positions of relative power. 

We’re leading teams, shaping cultures, and influencing others. And as those positions grow, it can get harder and harder to remain vulnerable, to lead with a limp as we like to say here. At some point, we have to make conscious decisions to choose vulnerability. That’s the story behind our guest: Tom Hsieh. 

As the founder and president of multiple airlines, Tom could easily live a life of luxury and comfort. But he and his family have felt called to something different. He joins us to talk about his choice to live with intentional vulnerability, what it looks like to run an airline, and taking thoughtful risk.

Helpful links referenced in the show:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/political-transformation-pomona-tom-hsieh/ (Dec 4, 2018)

https://www.dailybulletin.com/2018/05/12/pomona-faces-fiscal-cliff-according-to-the-first-10-year-forecast-its-ever-done/ (May 12, 2018)

https://www.dailybulletin.com/2023/03/22/pomona-could-see-8-5-million-surplus-by-end-of-june/ (May 22, 2023)

All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific advice for any individual or organization.

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Episode Transcript

Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.

Rusty Rueff: Hey there. And welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Entrepreneurs often find themselves in positions of relative power. That's to say we're leading teams, we're shaping cultures and we're influencing others. And as those positions grow, it can get harder and harder to remain vulnerable, to lead with a limp. As we like to say around here, at some point, we have to make a conscious decision to choose vulnerability. Well, that's the story behind our guest, Tom Hseih, as the founder and president of multiple airlines. Tom could easily live a life of luxury and comfort, but he and his family have felt called to something different. He joins us to talk about his choice to live with intentional vulnerability. What it looks like to run an airline and taking thoughtful risk. Let's dive in.

Henry Kaetner: Welcome back to the faith driven entrepreneur podcast. I'm here with William and William. We are without Rusty and we miss him. We miss him.

William Norvell: Always, always that always exciting because it's good to see you and our guests, but always sad when we're down an amigo.

Henry Kaetner: Indeed. So today we've got we've got a special guest on Look, there shouldn't be a pecking order for

Henry Kaetner: Cooler businesses than other businesses. And yet there is something amazingly cool about running an airline, right? I mean,.

William Norvell: It's factual.

Henry Kaetner: Is it something like I mean, you know, the things you have go 500 miles an hour? That's really cool. There's like the logistics and the scheduling, which is kind of this wild puzzle that needs to be solved. Right. I mean, the fact you can get in one of your planes in like 5 hours can be like anywhere in the country. I mean, that the adventure, the spontaneous adventure of it all, like if I own an airline. And I like, maybe I'll go like San Antonio and get some tacos for lunch. Right. But you can you do that. So, ladies and gentlemen, we've got Tom Hseih on the podcast today, and he indeed runs an airline and he's going to be talking about that. But one of the things that so we are going to be talking about how cool is to run an airline, but we're also going to be talking about the fact that that is only one really cool aspect of the way that God is using him in his life. And we can hear about all that today. But, Tom, welcome to the program. How cool is it to run an airline? Have you ever gone back into the hangar and just like, hey, I think I'll borrow that and I'm going to go get some tacos in San Antonio.

Tom Hseih: No.

William Norvell: That is specific, you've never been to San Antonio for tacos. I want to see if that specific scenario played out.

Tom Hseih: Yeah yeah yeah yeah certainly would not be a way I would use company resources. So last year. Okay, this is funny story, but last year I had my family, extended family come up and visit me in Anchorage. Oh, maybe a year and a half ago. Maybe 20 of us altogether. Anyway, I wanted to get them on a plane [.....]. The Alaska plane, you know, to visit Kenai in alaska. So, you know, went down to the service desk, and I bought tickets for all of us. And the agent looked at me kind of funny, was like, You're the president of this company, yet you're paying full price for these tickets. Like, yeah, you know, I hear it's a pretty good company to give money to, so I have no problem painful price for these tickets. So anyway, it's just this kind of a back event.

Henry Kaetner: And then of course, the paper trail is like you're not using I mean, you're believing the product you're buying, and it's not like this is like your private fleet of planes. So I get that. You know, I actually think I had thought about this before, but back in the 1980s, wasn't there a sitcom called Northern Exposure? Do you remember that? Because I'd forgotten you're in Alaska, right? Right. So do you remember? You know what I'm talking about. There's a TV. I do? Yeah. Yeah. An airline in, like, candidate or something like that. So what is it that draws people? Was really cool airline stories to the north. You got a particular angle about the opportunity to maybe speak to that a little bit.

Tom Hseih: Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Well, you know, the the thing that drew me to Alaska and our management team here was both a need and an opportunity. So what happened were great in Alaska, which is the airline we run is early in the pandemic, April of 2020, the airline declared bankruptcy and they shut down all service. But what that did at that moment was a stranded dozens of communities. The dozens of communities could no longer see a doctor, buy groceries, get US Postal Service. We at that time, you know, in March of 2020, had just launched another airline, a different airline in Southern California called Float Shuttle. And float stands for fly over all traffic. And the idea was to use the 40 general aviation airports in Southern California. That's like more small airports than train stations in the L.A. area to get people to and from work, reducing their commute from like 3 hours down to 15 minutes. And we had about 4000 people express interest in subscription service. We launched in March of 2020 and had a great first week and then we hit the pandemic, had to put that on pause, at which point, you know, our teams to back and ask, well, where's the need? Where's the opportunity? And, you know, we were drawn to the Raven because we saw a need and then we saw an opportunity. The 30% of their business was medical related. You know, Medicaid subsidized, 20% was cargo and mail. And we said, hey, you know, the numbers crunch out. If you even if you just did half the business throughout COVID, you get to service the need and have a sustainable business to COVID. And so we were really fortunate. I mean, I think we were blessed to have won the bankruptcy auction for Raven out of the bankruptcy courts and able to restart service. When we took over the business in 2020, most aviation industry said it would take us about a year to get back up and running and operational. Kudos to the team. That first month we rehire 300 employees. Everyone got to work. We got it up and running in three months and began servicing these communities in three months and it was really amazing, heartwarming the first time. So, you know, planes landed in some of these communities. The whole community come out and just applaud, you know, seeing that connection back to, you know, civilization coming back in to their communities. And that's just been a beautiful thing to be part of.

Henry Kaetner: That's super cool. Okay. So you have ended up where God has you right now and running an airline. But that's not the beginning of the story. And as you were talking about before we went online, you and I had connected a long, long time ago. And that must have had something to do with your time at EarthLink.

Tom Hseih: That's right.

Henry Kaetner: And you've come out of the telecom world. Who are you? Where do you come from?

Tom Hseih: Well, you know, so my early career. I got started at JPL. NACA actually got to work on the Galileo and Cassini despace probes projects, you know, So my my education is in physics. And then when I got to do was manage these networks of supercomputers that were computing the trajectories for the deep space probes for the Cassini, [.....] and for the Galileo. And those are, you know, very like massive computing, heavy efforts. And so I managed the computer networks that managed that and, you know, did that calculation, which is why I was recruited by EarthLink. If you remember EarthLink back in the day, EarthLink networks, early ISP. And when I joined the company, the engineering team was just ten other engineers and myself. We were working out of a converted dentist's office at that time. In that first month, we had to knock down the wall to the lawyer's office next door to expand our servers. So I knew of the company. VP of Engineering. Help me with that.

Henry Kaetner: For a very interesting day in the attorney's office where a bunch of telecom guys I talked to one of their having some sort of staff meeting and all of a sudden all these engineers like, like knocked down the wall.

Tom Hseih: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now there's a little more planned out than that. We actually had to buy out their lease, but that would have been very funny.

Henry Kaetner: Yeah. All right. I'm sorry. I guess I'm pretty sure that whole episode will end up on the cutting room floor. But continue on, please.

Tom Hseih: Yeah. So I got the other team to grow. That team from the ten engineers I joined to 450 engineers nationwide network engineers, systems engineer, software engineers and for ten years and to IPO. So we were, you know, one of the early dot coms, $1.2 billion IPO on the Nasdaq exchange. And when the company went public, you know, that's a bit of a life changing event for a lot of employees, particularly, you know, early employees and executives and even, you know, just early employees. I mean, I remember, you know, there were mailroom clerks showing up in their new Mercedes Benz, you know, next day. And it just you know, it was quite an event at that time. I think we had mentioned earlier living in a two bedroom apartment in Pomona, California. And it's in a neighborhood. You know, when I first moved in, there were five shootings on my block that first year. So it's a community that seen a lot of hardship, but it's also seen a lot of transformation. Anyway, my wife and I are living two bedroom apartment and she turns to me at that point, you know, my colleague, other executives and company were up scaling their home and moving to nicer places by the beach. And my wife turns to me and says, Well, we're not moving. You know, our call and our mission is right here. And not only that, she said, you know, the median household income for the nation at that point was $38,000 a year. So she says half the households in the nation live on 38,000. More and half the households live on 30,000 less. So she drew up a budget for us our rent, our gasoline, our groceries, our date nights, Date nights was a very important splurge category. It's very, very important. And so to say, she said, this is a 36,000 a year budget that's led to this budget so we can give the rest of our income money away. Wow. And that's just been a really joyful experience for us ever since. So median household income is closer to 80,000 these days. So we give ourselves a little bit of a raise. So here's a little bit above some years.

Henry Kaetner: You run an airline hold on a second, just make sure I am catching up, you ran an airline. Yeah. And you have elected to live to keep your family budget at the median family income and then give away all the rest. And with that household budget, you're still paying full price for airline tickets, as we've already established.

Tom Hseih: That's correct.

Henry Kaetner: Wow. That's amazing. That's unbelievable. How do people react to that?

Tom Hseih: You know, with their eyes, it varies, but. Yeah. Yeah.

Henry Kaetner: What are the things you miss? So do you. Look at this. You've had great business success. What are the things, walk us through that a little bit about? What does that really mean? And did you feel it's been a sacrifice? Just, you know, is that it's been a burden that you've carried on yourself like, oh, I guess we can't do more than 80,000 because we made this commitment. I guess we got to do it. How is that lived out?

Tom Hseih: Yeah, no, that's a great question. I mean, well, there are there's some sacrifices, so and so I'll just go back to our very first year of marriage, share some testimonies along the way to our encouragement, you know, very first year, you know, as we were getting married, we made this decision. As we were getting married, we realized that our budget wouldn't afford us, you know, an overseas honeymoon trip. Right? And so but we did something nearby. And it's really nice. We celebrate our honeymoon in San Diego just a couple hours away. But here's an amazing part of the story. So a year later, we get a call from Target. All right. So Target gives a call. My wife gets this call and she almost hangs up on them. They say, Congratulations, you've won the Target Calphalon giveaway thesis. My wife said no thank you. You know where we were You registered you did your wedding registry at Target and you registered for a telephone pan. That arm entered you into the target telephone. You know, honeymoon, when you're with see steaks and this is real, you don't have to pay taxes on this, but you win a seven day all expense paid trip to Tuscany, Italy. And that was an amazing confirmation, an incredible. And then my wife turned to me at that moment, said, this is God's confirmation to us. It's his encouragement saying, you know, I will provide for you. I will bless you with good things. And I think that's been true. And I can tell a story after story, but that just even from the start, that's been true practically what that meant. So I was there dinner party just a couple of weeks ago, and people were surprised to hear that we've never bought a new car in our marriage. We never buy a new car. And people are like, What? How can you do that? In fact, actually currently driving a 2006 Camry, I just got a return because we lent it to a friend. You had a friend in a neighborhood. Guy in the car accident and car was banged up. They're fine. And that them the car actually turned out to be for several months. And so we're down to one car, a family, which can be a little stressful in L.A., But someone in our church said, Hey, we hear you down to one car. We have an extra car. You know, once you just use it. We've been in. So we been using this other family's car, you know, for a couple of months. And so the dependency we have in our wider community really has also been part of the blessing. Right. So our interdependency, right in our community has been a great blessing for us. So I don't know. I don't think I think in terms of sacrifices, I think in terms of, you know, for the amazing things that we've been experience. Well.

William Norvell: Amen. Amen. Tom, William here, good to see you again. We're going to do a quick plug. Tom is in one of my faith driven entrepreneur groups right now. That's right. So gotten to know him over the last seven weeks. It's been really fun if you don't know about those yet. They're 8 weeks series and they're just really fun to get to know people and hear people's stories in a deeper way. And we were doing one specifically myself and Mark Washington, another friend of the program, did one for MBA students. So wherever you are, however you think about life, we like to think that there's a group for you, so we hope to be able to help you do that, to go to our website and check it out if there's not one for you. Start one with your affinity group and who you want to be and we'll help you start it. But it's been really fun to have a bunch of like minded people coming around again. It's been really fun to get to know Tom and his story, and I did not know, however, that you're driving a 06 camry because I drive an 07 camry. So now we're even closer than we were before. And that's why we come on the Long Form podcast. That's right.

Henry Kaetner: What do you get to know? 07 camry versus 06. What do you have the CD player or the eight track player.

William Norvell: Who.

Tom Hseih: We have six test. Wow. No, I don't.

William Norvell: Just the one. Yeah. Once you get 07, they get the special stuff. Dual temperature. Dual temperature control.

Tom Hseih: No way.

William Norvell: Yeah, yeah. No fun stuff like that. I was actually my wife's car. I inherited it when we had a bunch of children and had to get a minivan. But I don't want to belabor this point, but I want to go one layer deeper here because there's a lot of entrepreneurs listening and they may have an event in their life that is life changing monetarily, right? Yeah. And I know you're part of a great organization. We love here, too, called Generous Giving. And I will give you the mic for a few minutes and say like, oh, a little deeper on how you consider that decision and how you might you mention some testimony. How do you encourage people and I've heard you tell your story because I know you're not saying everyone should do exactly what you did. However, I never forget John Piper gives these sermons about missionaries every year and he says, Look. I'm not telling everybody to go to the middle of nowhere and be a missionary. But there might be five people here, and that's exactly what you should do. And so all I'm asking you to do is consider it deeply and put your hands out in front of God. Yeah. And so I want to hear a little bit about how that decision was made, because there may be some people listening that need to do that, that their heart is too wrapped up in the success or what that and I may be one of them. So I'm here to listen to. Could you tell us a little more about how you and your family prayed through that decision and what you might share as an encouragement to others thinking through it?

Tom Hseih: You know, I think we were fortunate in that for us, the decision actually was not very hard. And part of what that made this decision easier for us was, you know, you use the word missionary. But, you know, we were already active in missions. You know, we thought of ourselves as missionaries in Pomona. Right. And so, you know, a big part of it just, you know, I think how successes get defined in our lives is determined by where you live. Right. I mean, that's a big portion of it right there. And so in some regards, you know, we had quite an advantage, you know, living in Pomona, living in South Pomona, where, you know, it's in LA area, but rents are low. And then because we're a part of, you know, a ministry, we had a very, you know, different priorities in life focus already very well. So as peers, I mean, you know, in our two bedroom apartment in South Pomona, you know, before we had kids, everyone knew we were rich. Right then you are we were rich because, you know, they would knock on the door. The kids would knock on the door and say, who lives here? And so it was just the two of us. And that was surprising because all of our other neighbors would have two or three families in the same two bedroom apartment. Right. So then you were rich, right? Yes, the two of us. But this kind of resets your like you know, your level resets your peer group. Whereas I think, you know, we we're living in a more suburban place like where I grew up as a kid. You know, you have a very different peer group and you have a different sort of expectation of, you know, kind of lifestyle. Then the second part about being a missionary or, you know, working for the Shalom as they are, Pomona is, you know, we've had to build this interdependency, you know, through our community, with our neighbors, but also with our church. And, you know, I mentioned the story about the car, but that's not the first time we've had to be dependent on others for our needs. Times when we've, you know, lent money, borrowed money. But that kind of interdependency has freed us from each of us having to have our own stash of security. Right. So instead of each of us having our own stash of security for the what ifs, you know, we have this shared interdependency and that free us, that's all. And, you know, for us, it's been a beautiful experience of seeing the body of faith coming together, you know, to support each other, but to actually work actively in this community and see God's shalom and in his work in the city.

William Norvell: Mm hmm. Amen it reminds me of a I'm doing Bible in a year right now. I'm just just getting two acts, six months in, acts 2:44, the all believers were there, and they had all things in common, and they like nothing, right? Because they came together. And that's such a beautiful picture that I don't hear very often. Right. And of course, in the Old Testament, too, you see the Jewish people continually come around each other in that communal format, whether it's rebuilding the wall with Nehemiah or just taking care of day to day needs of, you know, the 12 tribes. So so we jumped out a little bit. And Henry, I know a lot of your story. Take us back to the decision to live in Pomona and how you have decided to make that a place that you have dedicated so much time and your family have dedicated so much time in. What was that decision like and how has that played out over the decades to root yourself in a specific place?

Tom Hseih: Yeah. Yeah. So for me, it started in college. When I was in college at Harvey Mudd, I got involved with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and really delved into the scriptures in a way and God opened up the scriptures to me in a way, and kind of we brought me into an adult faith. Right. And then some of the things that God opened my eyes to in Scripture I didn't really wrestled with or saw before, but by the time I graduated, God convicted me primarily two things. First thing that he convicted me of is God really has a love for the poor, and it's all through out scripture. It's just there. But I've never really kind of, you know, wrestled with it or acknowledged it before. But I also just really convicted, you know, God's love for the poor through out scripture. The second thing that God convicted me of is that I don't have a love for the poor. And I really felt like God challenged me at that time at the point when I graduated. Like, you know Tom here's where my heart is. This is where I'm focused. This is where I'm working. Where are you going? What are you doing? And so I ended up turning down a couple of job offers, some aerospace and entering, choosing a two year internship with a Christian missions organization called Servant Partners. Servant Partners works in urban slums around the world, and they had a two year internship where they were training folks who were going overseas. I just happened to be placed on the team that was located in Pomona, California. And so at the end of the two year internship, most of my teammates end up going overseas, which is what the training is for. But in my heart, at the end of two years was someone had to stay and work for the transformation of the city of Pomona. The all the reasons why the City of Pomona was a good place for this internship, right. For preparing people for overseas slums was one of the reasons why it also needed, you know, God's light and shalom and his people continued being committed and working for its betterment. So that's how I chose to live in Pomona. Felt like there was a calling for me to be invested for the long term in this city. My wife, my wife was involved InterVarsity Christian Fellowship as well in Iowa. So for Grinnell College in Iowa, she graduated in there, moved to South Central LA be part of a team there, you know, with servants partners. And so we met in L.A. And so, you know, I like to joke that, you know, when she married me and moved to Pomona, you know, she actually kind of moved up. It's actually kind of a step up in terms of neighborhood communities, but.

Henry Kaetner: You know, not say anything bad about Grinnell, Iowa.

Tom Hseih: No, no, no, no. I was talking about South Central from South Central. Oh, yeah. She was working in South Central L.A. and, you know, she married me and moved to Pomona from South Central, you know, And in some ways, I mean, they were similar type communities. But, you know, South Central had a much more notorious stigma or, you know, associations with it. And Pomona was probably less known. But anyway, that's that was the joke I was trying to make. Now about Grinnell, Iowa, actually, you know, I didn't mention that I actually lived for a couple of years in Iowa. So, you know, I was born in Taiwan and immigrated to us with my family when I was five. And the first place we lived was Ida Groves, Iowa. We lived in a small community and Ida Groves had just got their first signal light installed when we moved in. And so, you know, a couple of years of my childhood in Iowa before coming to our area.

Henry Kaetner: Want to be clear, we love faith driven entrepreneur in Iowa and we also love faith driven entrepreneur in south Central L.A., maybe not as much as we like the ones in Pomona, but now God is doing a great thing. There's been revival that's been going on in L.A. some amazing things, some great innovation there. And back to the story, it's very clear that you've been really actively involved in the community promoting that you've been called their your place there and you didn't really originally have a heart for the poor, developed one at a time. And as an entrepreneur, what does it look like for you to work with your employees? Because you've got several hundred now about how to help them to develop a love of community as well. What does that look like? How does it become their thing rather than just your thing?

Tom Hseih: Yeah, yeah, that's a really good question. And you know, I'll meet a friend that that's something I feel like I'd love to grow in. I love to learn more how to do that well, but I want to give that question a little bit and talk about how I've been blessed to see that happen in my kids. Right. So, you know, when we bought the airline in Alaska, we actually moved up to Anchorage for a year. And so one of the practices my wife and I have in our life is before we make any major decisions, we gather that kind of our spiritual elders together, folks in our church and our wider community who are believers, and we ask them if they trust. So before we bought our house, you know, we had them pray about that decision going from renter to owner before I made major life decisions. When I took on the role of volunteer campaign manager for our current mayor, when we were trying to bring about a political transformation in the city, you know, gather that group together. You know, the consensus there was, yeah, this is something you should be committed to before we started the airline, you know, gather that group together. Knew that would in some ways take my attention away from the city a little bit right as we were starting this airline. And and the consensus from that group is you need go do this. We all know why. But, you know, go do this airline. There's enough leaders here in the city moving things forward, but you need to go. And at that point, the words, you know, one of the folks received as they were praying for me was, you know, the time is urgent and the opportunity is going to be global, global, global. I'm like, we're doing a regional, regional, regional airline but little that I know you know how this is going to in the developing. But at that time we actually so we bought the airline. We moved our family to Anchorage. Initially, the intent was just to be there for three months. So restarting the airline is during the pandemic. So extended, you know, become a full year. You know, after three months, we were still in lockdown. Our kids were still enrolled in their Pomona Unified Public Schools, but they were zooming in from Anchorage and, you know, they weren't going back in-person. So we end up staying a full year there and then moved back until kids were allowed to go back in-person. Then we moved back. But when we were in Anchorage, my kids came to me and my daughter particularly was like, you know, this has been amazing, you know, to be in Alaska. It's beautiful. We just had this amazing routine. We love the outdoors. She said but we're going back to Pomona, right? Like, yeah, it's just no, please, you know, we need to go back. And I was reflecting on why was that so important for her? Well, you know, it was the thing. And then realize that, you know, our mission in Pomana wasn't just my wife and mine, it's hers as well. You know, when she was in third grade, one day after school, she came home and she asked my wife and I says, Mom, dad, why do we live here? It's kind of dirty, it's noisy. There's, you know, police helicopters overhead every night. We lived two blocks away from one of the grittiest intersections in the city. So there's a lot of gritty stuff on the streets, and why do we live here. And, you know, we had a chance, as you know, we've had other times. But, you know, it's just kind of explain again, our sense of calling, you know, to see and our prayer and our work or what is God doing here. And when we said, yeah, this is we sent a call, but, you know, this call has to work for our whole family. And so any point that doesn't work for any of us, we've got to take it to the Lord and ask him what to do. And she said, Oh, okay, well, that's fine. Yeah, thank you. And then a couple weeks later she comes back to me and I was starting to read the mayor's campaign that time, she just said, dad can I go with you? Can I go with you? You know, to these meet and greets and these campaign rallies? And the strategy means I'm like, absolutely, you know, come along. And she came with me to this [..........................] . Like, Yeah, well, she ended up like also helping my wife run the place, making workshops on the weekends where, you know, they would gather up to 80 people, would get together on weekends and pick a particular alley or a corner and say, What can we do? What's the cheap light there to make this block just more friendly? A place where community can gather and, you know, build community rather than a place of blight. And so she helped run those with my wife for a couple of years after mayor Centreville was was elected. Two years later, there were three other council members that ran and that we supported because they had, you know, the same kind of community minded, you know, servant leaders. And one of them was Nora Garcia, who was a schoolteacher. And my daughter Kadence worked on her campaign. And she was such a critical part of that team that when she won and she was sworn in, she asked my daughter to stand up on the dais with her when she was sworn in. Right. And it reflecting on that made me realize, oh, this isn't just our city, right? This isn't just our ministry. This is our kids city as well. And so it's been [......] to see that be part of their lives and then back to the money thing. So one of the things that were helping the kids on, you know, every now and then and then, you know, this happened, you know, as we're coming back from Alaska, I was like, well, you know, every now and then as an entrepreneur, you know, there are equity moments, right? Liquidity moments. And I said, you know, if this airline does well and it also we had launched a cryptocurrency company and of course, you know, crypto markets kind of crazy, right? So. Well right now. But you know, we had launched a cryptocurrency company, raised 33.2 million as a three seed, right to launch fly coin. And you know, my question in my kids, really, if any of these does well. How would you think about you would imagine like that could change what we did with our lives or and my kids [.....] like, change. What would change and my daughters? You know, like. Yeah. Dad I think would give us an opportunity to think about more places to give. Anyway, that is just beautiful.

Henry Kaetner: Yeah, that is. How old are your kids again?.

Tom Hseih: So my daughter's 16 now, is going from junior to senior, and my son is 11. He's going from fifth to six grade.

William Norvell: I had one more question before we come to a close. You mentioned calling a few times. Right. I'm curious, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs, I mean, most entrepreneurs feel some sense of calling before they go off on this journey. You know, there's a lot easier ways to live in the world, right? Those calls are probably from a spectrum of I see a great business opportunity to you know, I heard a word from the Lord audibly. Right. That big of a spectrum. But I'm curious, how do you reaffirm or reassess, you know, did you hear something 20 years ago? And you just know that that was so clear that you're never going to change? Or do you continually do it? And if you do continually reaffirm it, what does that process look like?

Tom Hseih: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think for me is that later, right? Is it's been a continual process. I don't think it's kind of like, oh, I've got this one calling and it's been clear ever since. It hasn't been that way for me. I mean, first I thought I was going to go into, you know, be a physicist, go into aerospace, and God said, no, you know, I want you to work of where your heart is at and grow this, you know, love for ministry. And then, you know, he, God continue to advance my career in the meantime with JPL and then with EarthLink. And then, you know, there was a little bit of time where, you know, really my focus was steered away. So, you know, like I mentioned, you know, when I took on the role as being a [......] Campaign manager for the mayoral candidate and current mayor, I mean, that took my attention away from business for a little while. You know, there were still businesses that were running that I wasn't actively managing that had started, but I wasn't. I mean, my focus was the campaign. My focus was, you know, building up the momentum of a citywide movement transformation. But, you know, in terms of the process, in terms of the client, how's that calling been renewed for me, I'd go back to this group of spiritual elders, you know, in our lives where we, you know, we sit and listen and, you know, my wife and I continue to submit ourselves, you know, both to the Lord's calling, but also to the wisdom of the believers around us and to their accountability. Right. So it's a lot easier, you know, when you have a group of peers who, you know, commission you into something, you have that kind of you're like, okay, it be just like something I heard and I've got [......]. Like, you know, you know, there's this community of folks around us supporting us, encouraging us, holding us accountable. And before, you know, and every major change or different times of checking in like his calling shifted or is it morphed or is it, you know, pivoting? And, you know, we want to remain open and responsive to the Lord's direction.

Henry Kaetner: Now, I want to hear from you about what you're hearing from the Bible, maybe something this morning, maybe something this week. Before we do that, though, 60 seconds or less just gives a quick view of what the transformation has been like in Pomona since you've been involved. It looked like this and now it looks like this. This give us a 60 seconds overview and then bring us to close by sharing something you're hearing from God through his word.

Tom Hseih: Yeah. So one of the reasons why we feel called to be involved in the political transformation is after working in the city for 20 years with help, started a number of different nonprofits, educational nonprofits, afterschool programs, Bible clubs, environmental justice, nonprofit workforce development, etc. realized it was like pouring water into a leaky bucket right there. And we realized that there was a layer of political corruption that was really sabotaging the future of the families in our city. So when my friend Tim Sandoval, who is a community servant leader, stepped up and said, I'm going to run, we felt like, okay, we need to get behind him. You know, City at that point had pretty significant kind of homeless dwellings, tent cities, if you will, and, you know, major blocks, including the civic center. So we're going to have to see how I'm going to turn to the library. This is a huge encampment, but throughout the city there was just in numbers and numbers of encampments. You know, since then, we've been able to build shelters for them to build, you know, programs. We had people graduating from those programs into, you know, more long term housing, sustainable jobs, etc.. That's a beautiful for transformation. But also, I mean, just kind of highlight, you know, it just is just the fiscal health of the city. You know, five years ago, you know, the city was projected to be insolvent. We're running, you know, $10 million deficits and it was heading towards insolvency within two years. Just this year, the city is projected to have a $8.5 billion surplus now. And so, you know, praise the Lord for that. So that's a bit of kind of a very high level. Right. Some indicators of some of that transformation in the city. We were talking about just a change in the attitude. The spirit of the people, which is the most important, I think is a sense of hope, right? I think the most difficult thing to combat in a troubled community is the sense of hopelessness. I sense that, you know, the best thing you can do is just get to get out versus, you know, how do we actually change this community and have it be a place that's worthwhile to invest in and be part of for a long term? And that change has been significant. And I would love to. I mean, they won't fit in a 60 seconds or less so that lots of stories about what that transformation and helpfulness looks like.

Henry Kaetner: So, Tom, thank you for that closes out. Tell us what you're hearing from God in his word. Doesn't necessarily need to be this morning, but maybe it is it is something recently because we have this belief, of course, in the community that God continues to speak to us through the Bible.

Tom Hseih: Yeah. Yeah, he does. You know, praise the Lord for that, you know. So one of the things that I'm sure this as an entrepreneur, so let's take us back to the entrepreneurial journey is is when running an airline, when there's two parts of our airline, there's the established service in Alaska and then there's this entrepreneurial venture part where we're expanding to create a new Trans-Pacific airline called Northern Pacific. Right. And then starting an airline is very capital intensive. It's you know, it's the Richard Branson quote, You know, this way to become a millionaire is you start with $1,000,000,000 and then you buy an airline, right? Yeah, very capital intensive. And it's it's a very challenging journey for us as a startup, right, As a start up. So that's very much in startup venture mode right now. And sometimes it's very difficult. You know, it's very challenging to think about, you know, looking at our cash runway and looking at what needs to happen to keep the business operating, you know, into next week, into next month. And as I also reflected on this, you know, in this scripture, so this is coming out, you know, where this is scripture speak to me, I felt the Lord led me to a passage in Exodus where he's leading a Hebrew people out of Egypt and they're at the shore, the Red Sea, and the Egyptians are closing in. They're caught. You know, one side cut off by the Red Sea, the other side with the Egyptians advancing on them and they they're stuck. And that's where I felt like I was at, like, you know, hey, I don't know where to go here. And I'm sure the entrepreneurs can relate with this feeling. But as I was in prayer and as I was studying this passage, I felt like, you know, Lord saw me. Like he said, No, you're not on the shore, you're not on the shore. You've got the wrong perspective on this. You're in the tunnel of water. You're in the tunnel of water. You know, I've already done this miracle, opened up this way right where you are in this process, miraculously. And that's true. And then the only reason or even where we're at, it's been a miracle. And so you're in the middle of the tunnel water. You're not through it. You're not in the shore, You're not at the other end, you're in the middle, you know, and that maybe you feel more terrifying, right? Because not only are you, but you still have the sea around you and the Egyptians are still advancing. But, you know, your options are limited. You know what you going to do? You're going to sit down. You can't go back. No, you go. You just got to go forward. And I was such a both challenging and encouraging word.

Henry Kaetner: Tom, thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for being with us. Looking forward to tracking the progress of the growth of the airline. We all need to go ahead and do a field trip down to Pomona and see what God has done down there. Thank you for the example you set for how you think about the biblical message of generosity and community involvement, engaging our children and just grateful for you.

Tom Hseih: Thank you.

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