Episode 232 - From Pro Athlete to Entrepreneur with Jeremy Lin and Patricia Sun
When you think of the accomplished basketball player, Jeremy Lin, you may not picture an entrepreneur right away. But after Linsanity took the world by storm, the young star had to think of himself as a brand as well as an athlete.
Fast forward to today and Jeremy is still balancing the two worlds, especially as he grows his company, JLINN LLC.
Over the years, Jeremy saw the transformative power businesses can play in communities. Mix that with the desire he had to steward the success he has had as an athlete, and you’ve got a perfect recipe for an entrepreneur.
Originally aired on our Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia show, Jeremy Lin and his business partner, Patricia Sun, talk about the Linsanity journey that made him a superstar, why he’s stepping into entrepreneurship, and how he and others can fight pride and stay rooted in Christ.
All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific advice for any individual or organization.
Episode Transcript
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Rusty Rueff: Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. When Jeremy Lin rose to Linsanity fame in February of 2012, his name became associated with the fastest growing athlete brand in the world. But the buzzing fanfare of his success, well, it came with a cost. Jeremy experienced the immense pressure of having to measure up to Linsanity heroics. In this episode, Jeremy shares with the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia team how he has navigated the public scrutiny of being a prominent Christian and Asian-American professional basketball player. Patricia Sun, the CEO of JLIN LLC, also walks us through how the mission driven firm JLIN is impacting culture by mobilizing resources to remove barriers to equity for marginalized youth and communities. Let's get to it.
Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia Podcast. Wen, good morning.
Wen Li Lim: So excited, good evening. Sorry, I just thought I was doing the welcome and I think we're just really glad to be back together again to do this.
Henry Kaestner: So today we've got a really, really special guest. I think this is really the first time we've ever had a guest who really hits on every one of our ministries. Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia, definitely Faith Driven Entrepreneur global. It's an American guy that we're talking to, Faith Driven Investor somebody who's really thoughtful about where God has put them in the world. And I'm all kinds of fired up about our time today.
Wen Li Lim: Yeah. So without further ado, we have Jeremy and Patricia joining us today. Welcome to both of you.
Patricia Sun: Thank you for having us.
Wen Li Lim: So for those who don't know, Jeremy is the NBA player known with the term Linsanity. And everybody knows that you are an athlete and prominent Asian-American, but also a Christ follower and someone who was deeply in the spotlight during the height of the NBA fame that you had. But today, we want to kind of talk about an identity of yours that perhaps isn't as widely discussed and that is your position as an entrepreneur and an investor. So welcome and let's kind of go into this. So tell us a bit about your journey since, you know, going prior and now you're in China playing basketball and leading to the work that you're doing as an entrepreneur as well.
Jeremy Lin: Yes. So, you know, I'm entering my 13th season as a professional basketball player and my first nine were in the NBA and I spent the majority of the time after in the CBA. So, you know, I need to say the acronyms, the NBA, the National Basketball Association, the CBA, the China Baseball Association. And so that's where I spent the majority of my playing career. But I am currently 34 years old. You know, the average NBA player or professional basketball player really is you know, the average is around less than five years. And so, you know, with such a short career window, you're always thinking about next steps, especially for me, going into my 13th year, it's like, well, not only is it, what am I going to do after I retire, but it's also having gone through the highs of being literally the most popular and Google search person on the planet to the lows of, you know, a lot of my failures and disappointments and crushed dreams that have been on full display for everybody to see amidst the highs and lows of my career. A big question has always been, well, what really is it all for? Like, what is it all for? What is my whole career was my whole life about? And that is a question that when you have the success and the failure and the scrutiny and the praise of, you know, I guess just the basketball community across the world, that is something that immediately comes to mind. And that's why we've gone into being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur and what that looks like and what that means, which I guess would be a perfect segway to Patricia, who is the CEO of everything and the brains behind everything I do. But, you know, me and her have been on this journey along with a couple of others for over a decade now, and it's been a lot of fun.
Wen Li Lim: So, yeah. Patricia, tell us a bit about yourself, the CEO of JLIN, but also your Jeremy's sister in law. So working with family, that's always interesting. But yeah, share a bit about your story, I think. I read that you were thinking of going to the health field when God led you to work with Jeremy and kind of what drew you to working together.
Patricia Sun: Yeah. So when Jeremy had his Linsanity moment, he was staying at our apartment in New York City. So I'm married to Jeremy's older brother, Joshua, who was a dental student at the time. And so Jeremy was staying on our couch and we had sort of had front row seats to this overnight moment where we went from Jeremy being like, I don't know if I'm going to have another practice to okay, everyone's asking for something. I don't know what to do. And he asked me to join him. He asked me to be his manager at the time. And at the time I was applying to public health school, I had really, in my mind, sort of a vision for what a meaningful career looked like. And I thought it meant direct service. I thought it meant working with people directly. And I had never crossed my mind that business or entrepreneurship in any way could be, I think, what it is now. It could be a meaningful kind of Christ driven career. But when Jeremy asked me to help, I think my gut instinct was like what I saw was somebody who really wanted to steward everything that was happening for good and who really didn't know where to turn or who to trust. And that was like I just I deeply understood what I think Jeremy wanted to do with everything that he was given. And I saw just an opportunity to at least try to help him. And so, like he said, we've built this company together over the past ten years. And it's a position that I personally never thought I would be in. But God has been extremely faithful to both of us. It's been hard, like you said, a family business, but it's also been a lot of fun.
Wen Li Lim: Yeah. Or you're like long service leave in Australia we have like ten years and you've done this decade. So it's a milestone and it's amazing. Why does faith driven entrepreneurship look like for building this company? JLIN from either of you?
Patricia Sun: Yeah, I can start. I think Faith driven entrepreneurs shift for us meant that everything that Jeremy was approached with, whether it was business endorsements, whether it was media, whether it was all kind of the standard of being a celebrity at the time, we looked at it through the lens of what would it look like for God to be a part of this? What would it look like to do this differently? Because Jeremy really wasn't in this position to try to be famous or to try to earn a lot of wealth. He just really loved basketball. And suddenly we got this opportunity to reimagine what could this look like if we use fame for good and for God? And I think some of the things with that would mean we were extremely thoughtful on which partnerships we undertook. We were thoughtful about how he talked to the media. We were thoughtful about what we stepped into and who we worked with and who we did it. You know, I had a lot of doubts about whether this could be like fame and celebrity and all that could be faith driven. But I think Jeremy has really stayed authentic to who he is. And one of our biggest successes is that ten years later, I feel that he's still the same person. He still loves God. He still is true to who he is.
Wen Li Lim: Yeah. Thank you, Jeremy.
Jeremy Lin: Yeah. I mean, I think you know what I think about faith driven anything and especially Faith Driven Entrepreneur. I think the first thing I think about or what that looks like for me is who you are as a person. Integrity wise, character wise. I think that is something that, like I was just not ready for at a young, you know, when the Linsanity happened, I knew it was from God. I knew was a miracle. But I would say, I guess it's like anything, right? Any time you take any new responsibility, it's like you had to build that foundation first. And for me to be a faith driven anything, I think God really like tried me tested me and taught me a lot and is still teaching me a lot. And I think that's probably one of the biggest things that I learned through a lot of, you know, sin and a lot of mistakes. But just to be faith driven means God is the North Star. He is not one of many priorities. He is the priority. He is the focus. He is what you live for, which you strive for, who you want to please. And he gave you that identity and that purpose. And I think the reason why I like being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur athlete is very difficult is because there's so much pressure. Then there's people whose livelihoods depend on what you do and whether you succeed. And there's just a lot. It's like such a strong magnetic pull that if you don't have a foundation as a person, as a child of God first, like the magnetic pull of that pressure will suck you into a different world that like if you're not careful, like it's not that easy to get out of. And so when I think about what it means to be a Faith Driven Entrepreneur, really, it means you have to lay your foundation first and you really have to build who you are as a person. And from there then I think God will continue to lead you and guide you and grow you at the same time for sure. But that it all starts with integrity and character as who you are as a person.
Henry Kaestner: As I listen to this, I think on a bunch of things, it's interesting. You're absolutely a veteran as a professional basketball player, and yet you're still also 34. And I think back ten years ago when you're in your early twenties and you've got the pressures of being in Madison Square Garden, but then you've got the additional pressures of representing an entire billions of people. But then also been a faith driven entrepreneur. Can you talk a little bit about many entrepreneurs on this podcast have always dreamed of being an entrepreneur. That's their NBA. There have been times, especially early on, where you thought, Gosh, I just want to be a basketball player. I don't want to have the pressure of having to steward, this public persona or gosh, I guess I have an opportunity to build a brand, but I just want to play basketball. Can you just talk about the stresses or maybe it wasn't so much the stress, but just as you saw that opportunity to build a brand and become an entrepreneur. Because theoretically, what you could have done is you could have just gone out there and just said, I'm just going to have Goldman Sachs run all my money. I'm just going to run my business on the court. How did you decide to kind of lean into what God had made you to be and make that into a business that was consistent with the brand you wanted? Did you ever go through this process and say, okay, I could go one or two ways. I can just focus on basketball and have somebody else run my money, not worry about the entrepreneurship part. Or I can kind of lean into there's an opportunity to build a brand that counts and stands for something in addition to what I'm doing on the hardcourt.
Jeremy Lin: Yeah, it was definitely an evolution for sure. As an evolution, like Patricia had mentioned, like, you know, the sad part is like I graduated from college, I went straight to the NBA and I knew nothing about entrepreneurship. I had never sat in a cubicle. I didn't even know that performance reviews were a thing. Like, I didn't know anything about the business world. Like, I knew nothing. And all of a sudden, not only was I a basketball player, but I was also, you know, God had I felt like given me a large amount of wealth steward and I was a CEO, all of a company as my, like side hustle or like in my spare time, I guess because I had a full time job already, I mean, that I can't even begin to express just how much heartache I have put Patricia and my team through because of my just inability to understand my lack of time, my lack of understanding of all of that. And I think to answer your question, like as I was going through this seem like this whirlwind baptism by fire type like thing, I think the first thing that really hit home that God really like made clear to me was like, this isn't enough. Like being great at basketball is not enough for you to be fulfilled forever. It isn't it. It just isn't it. And I think that's what I mean when I say you can get sucked into this, like almost this different world where it's like you're so focused on something. And then finally when you get it, which I got that time's 100 during Linsanity, God really, really convicted me, like, in a strong way of this alone, this success is not enough. So then that obviously begs the question of, okay, well then what should I be pursuing? Because being successful on the court is not a sin. That's not wrong. There's probably more to it. And that's where God was really challenging me, like, Hey, if you're just building your own kingdom. You're basically chasing the wind, like it's completely meaningless. But if you can do things to really build my kingdom, to give me the glory and to point people to me like that was when I really felt something in my heart and in my soul. Like something different. Like, oh, this is my calling. Like, this is why I was created. And this is what I'm supposed to do. And that's what led to. Okay, well, we have the platform, we have social media, we have the wealth, we have the brand, and we have the network. And we have all these opportunities to do things off the court. That whole thing that we had, that monster of a thing that I felt like God asked us to steward. We start to really ask tough questions of like, what would it look like if we really stewarded this well for God? And that was kind of, you know, a multi-year journey.
Henry Kaestner: Okay. That's amazing. So you're going through this process in your twenties. I think that most faith driven entrepreneurs don't have the opportunity to do that that early. And it's amazing that you came to understand that your satisfaction and joy shouldn't come from just your athletic success, that he taught you that lesson, but that it needs to be about something bigger, about building his kingdom for his glory. So that's really amazing. I mean, that's a that's an awesome a godsend. And I celebrate the fact that God protected you in that way because otherwise you could have gone off the rails. Do you get a sense of of because you've you've undoubtedly felt the success of scoring 38 against the Lakers on Madison Square Garden versus the feeling of success when you feel like you're in line with God's plan for your life. Can you describe the two different feelings or can or their feelings that can be compared in terms of a degree of satisfaction? I think that if you're listening to podcasts, you're endeavoring to understand the feeling of feeling God's joy as you go out doing his work. But most of us have not felt that exhilaration and think that that moment of exhilaration is still possible for us. And it may be better than the sense of just being in line with God's plan. How would you compare and contrast the two different types of feelings, if indeed they are different?
Jeremy Lin: Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I think, you know, scoring 38 on the Lakers at MSG and any type of big game and those types of things. I would describe all of those as those are like highs. It's like you go on a roller coaster or you if you go out with your friends or you have a great meal, like they're like adrenaline rushes. Those are like highs where it's like, okay, but I got to go chase the next one, I got to chase the next one. And it's almost like it kind of ups your ceiling, right? Like if you start off, you know, flying economy, the first time you go to first class, it's going to be like, oh, my goodness. But if you do every time, then, you know, at a certain point it's going to become a little bit more normal. And then like, what is that next? And then if you go back to the economy, then it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, the seats are so close, and, you know, where's my mojito or whatever, right? Like. And I think that's like, God was really humbling me with was that like, not only did I have Linsanity, but I also, like, lost it, all right? Like the starting position, the contract, the love of the fans of New York City and the endorsements and the NBA career and all these different things got slowly like stripped away. And I think through that, I had to really, like, chase something other than those highs. And, you know, I always contrast the moment when Linsanity, I was at my peak and I remember before a game I had such bad anxiety. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat. And I remember thinking to myself before we played the Chicago Bulls, you know, and Derrick Rose, who was in his MVP prime, I remember it being filled with so much anxiety now is like, you know, Linsanity and being the most popular person on the planet is not enough, then nothing is. And that contrast, that moment with about seven years later when I ruptured my patellar tendon and I can go on to this whole story about like why this opportunity with the Brooklyn Nets was something I had waited for, for years and years. And in the first game of the season, I ruptured my patellar tendon and I missed all 82 games of the season. But I talk about in those lows or when I share those stories or when I do different things, like being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur, when there are certain things that happen or you see certain, you know, kind of like when you're describing what happened, you know, like the different things that you saw. Like when you're a part of something like that is so much more deeply rooted. And it's this feeling of like, this is what I'm meant to do. And it's deeper. It's not like, man, I just, you know, I went out to the club with my friends and like, that was a crazy night, and it's just like, it's very different. And so one I would describe as like an adrenaline rush or a high. And the other one I would say, is like this deep seated, deep rooted in and I think Scripture talks about it's like there's just peace. And that doesn't mean that like, I mean, you could be filled with fear. You could be filled with like because of, you know, being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. You're going to have a lot of stress. You're going to a lot of uncertainty, like a ton of uncertainty. You're going have pressure, you're going to have doubts. But even amidst all of that, God can give you this peace and this like groundedness that is more stabilizing than you know, when you think you would have it all and be at your finest moments of success. And so I always tried to compare those two moments where on paper I was at my height, but in my heart I felt really empty. And on paper I was in a very low moment. But you know God is with me. I knew he wanted me there. I knew that I had done things the right way. I knew that he was proud of me. I knew I had his approval. And yet my heart was still very full.
Henry Kaestner: The peace that surpasses all understanding. I think that's what we're all after. And that's awesome that you've captured that. So you've got a lot of people that around you. You've got a lot of basketball players that are around you. You've seen a lot of entrepreneurs as well, maybe more basketball players and entrepreneurs, but you've seen them. And I want to talk a little bit about the humility that comes across as you spend time with you. So I'm going to set up back in 2012 while Forbes magazine published an article saying that Jeremy Lin, you talking about you in terms of a brand as well here, which is kind of weird that Jeremy Lin was the fastest growing athlete brand in the world. It's quite the praise. And I'm sure there were moments where it felt exciting and overwhelming. How can we as faith driven entrepreneurs stay humble when we start to reach those levels of success that we strive for?
Jeremy Lin: I'm so glad Patricia's on this podcast as well because she is definitely one of the stabilizing. Like, she never cared what everyone else was feeding me and how big the ego got on the outside. She was always true to like, This is who I think you are or who you should be as a person. This is what I think it means to follow God. And she would call me out on a lot of stuff and you know, she would really challenge me, but I think multiple things for sure. But I think, you know, continuing to go back to the cross and the heart of the gospel message, like understanding that it doesn't matter how successful you get. Like you still need a savior. And then I think it's having people around you. That can kind of lead you back to that and kind of remind you of that. And, you know, I know that me and Patricia always talk about this because my brand is like, Jeremy is so humble. I want my son to be like Jeremy. And it's like, wow, look at sheer humility. And it's like everybody who's close to me and they know this and I say this, but I guess people don't take me seriously. It's like the biggest thing I struggle with this pride. I mean, it's always been there for me, like from a young age. My mom was the one who was on me from a young age. Like, you're going to have a lifelong battle with pride. I don't know if you have anything else to throw in there, to chime in there, and of how you seen it from a third party perspective.
Patricia Sun: I mean, I think to your credit, Jeremy, I feel like you have always tried to put people around you that would it. You know, I think we see this a lot with athletes. And as people gained notoriety, it's hard to have people that will tell you what you don't want to hear sometimes. And Jeremy was always been very open to that. So even as he struggles with pride, I think he was always very open. So if you see something like please call me out on it. And I think I mean, that's really you know, what you guys were talking about was success, too. Like in 2012 when the brand was the biggest. I is not where we felt the most peace like we have really tried our best not to structure this company to be based on how are the metrics doing, how are the matter. But they don't drive everything. So when a YouTube video doesn't get the millions of views, like if we felt we were true to ourselves and we felt like this is Jeremy's authentic story and we did what God wanted us to do, we always felt like that was okay. And I think that kind of helped us not be as reliant on how the world was gauging the success of JLIN LLC and see as a company, as a success of Jeremy Lin as a brand. And we had a different metric of success for ourselves, and I think that really helped us be a little bit more free from the worldly standards.
Henry Kaestner: So I'm picking up on two things here that are really, really important, I think, for our audience to hear. One is what's coming across to me is Jeremy's identity in Christ and what happened on the cross, understanding that when God sees Jeremy and Jeremy, tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth, please put out what I've picked up from your stories that when God sees you, he doesn't see this NBA basketball star or this, you know, very successful proprietor of JLIN. He sees his son. And when you have your identity rooted in that, you've got a fighting chance. And then more pragmatically, you get people around you. And I think that God creates to be a community with others that can help us to see our blind spots. And what I just heard from Patricia there is that you've given her permission. So for us as faith driven entrepreneurs to give others that are close to us permission to call us out, then we've got a shot. But then also the other thing I heard from you is that it sounds like you still struggle with. I surely do. Right. So it's an acknowledgment. It's almost like, you know, an Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, like you start off every meeting and I actually haven't been a meeting. I have all sorts problems. That's not one of them. But, you know, it's like I'm an alcoholic, like my name is Henry Kaestner and I have pride issues and so is acknowledging and being conscious of it would maybe be the third thing. Is that a fair kind of assessment?
Jeremy Lin: Yeah. No, that was perfect. I think you should answer the question for me instead. Yeah.
Henry Kaestner: Everybody wants to hear what Henry Kaestner has to say. No I just
Henry Kaestner: Just I'm summarizing. I just I mean, it's a big deal. You know, we've had 200, that we've had 250 podcast episodes. We've had great stories from all sorts of different people. But I don't know that we've really gotten in the pride, humility part as much as we could have. I don't know that we've had a guest. It's so clearly said, you know, for the identity thing, you know, it just really it's what happened on the cross. I mean, without that. And then of course, it's kind of a deep seated pleasure and that peace is surpasses all understanding. There's just awesome lessons here. Wen back to you.
Wen Li Lim: Yeah. I guess another thing around the identity part, it's really you as an Asian-American. And in interview with ESPN, you said you spent a lot of your life being uncomfortable in your own skin, especially given that everyone has an opinion, a narrative about who you are or who you should be. You know, you've been mistaken or you know, people have called you Yao Ming, mistaking you for the team trainer and even called you, you know, things like coronavirus. What does it mean for you, especially now, to be proud of your Asian heritage and the work that you're doing around that?
Jeremy Lin: Yeah. And actually, can I just rewind really quick to to chime in on the identity part, because I think one thing that I really struggle with to this day and I spend a lot of time on this, is like when I think about the cross and getting back to my identity because Henry, when you're talking, you reminded me like, oh, when God looks at me like he sees Jesus, like he sees like perfect holiness. And that concept is like, you know, you grow up in church, people say, like as an athlete or an entrepreneur or someone who is always striving, working and trying to be better and trying to earn work, prove basically to be a Faith Driven Entrepreneur like your first step is to rest is to rest in your grace and in your identity. And that's like the exact opposite of anybody who's trying grind to succeed and do anything. And that's the exact opposite of everything that your industry is going to tell you as an entrepreneur, is that you got to go you got to go get it. You got to do it. You got to train, you got to work hard, you got to crush it on the court or crush it at work. And I think for me, it's like, man, I'm so ingrained in this, like no days off, you know, just like always be better than you are yesterday mentality. And to really understand who you are in Christ in your identity as a Faith Driven Entrepreneur means like the first thing you do is rest and accept God's grace. And that is like so hard for me. Like if I don't get back to that every day, I have to remind myself and like meditate on that. I will not believe it, you know? I'll be like, I got to go do this. I will even have to, like, strive to be whole again in God's eyes, by doing my devotional reading, doing my reading. Like I will have to, like, structured stuff to do and accomplish and achieve to even make myself feel like I'm worthy of God's love. That is just something that for me, I always learn. And that is also the essence of pride, thinking that I can go and get something that God has already given to me, or that I can go and almost be my own God in one sense of trying to achieve holiness or worthiness or approval. So that was my spill on that.
Henry Kaestner: But that's a great spill. So but that begs the question, I can't even remember what the question was that we asked you before either [...], but that what you just said then begs the question about where does your motive come from? If you're not earning something, you're doing something out of rest. You know that no matter how hard you work, God will still see you as Jesus. Where does your motive come from?
Jeremy Lin: I think it comes from the love, right? Like God's love for you will naturally change you. Like once you encounter God, you won't be the same, but you don't work to earn God's love. You work because of God's love. It's like when I'm filled. If someone gives me like 100 iPhones for free, I'm not going to have 100 numbers. You know, I'm going to be like, Oh, you give them out. You know, like it's like, whoa, I've been blessed with, like, I want to pass this on to other people. Like, it almost. It's like so natural it comes out. It's not like I have to and I struggle with this is literally why I'm in therapy. This is what Patricia has challenged me on day after day. And she has we could go through like an hour's worth of how she has tried to instill this culture into our team and into our company of like, are we enjoying it? Are we enjoying what we're doing? Are we resting in God's grace? Like, are we truly sabath-ing? Are we honoring each other as individuals? And are we growing and like, are we really being who God created us to be before we do anything? And because you be and once you be, it's like that doing comes naturally and freely and not out of shame. Not out of obligation is just something that flows. Out of you naturally. And I think that's the joy of being a faith driven anything. Is that like when you have your identity deeply rooted in Christ, you live from abundance and not scarcity, you know? And that all tied to the question Wen, of being an Asian-American because, you know, growing up as a minority, it's like everything is scarcity mindset, you know, it's like, yeah, everything, everything is scarcity mindset, especially trying to be Asian in basketball or to try to start a startup business from scratch or to, you know, like everything is scarcity mindset and all of a sudden, you know, God is trying to help you live out of abundance. And it's like, I don't know, I don't I don't know how to balance it to be right.
Patricia Sun: Yeah. And I think in our first few years, like, there was so much pressure. And you know, Jeremy is saying that I instills in the culture was really because I struggle with it so much myself where there was this pressure of like, if we are the only Asian-Americans in this space, then we have to steward this completely and well, and we can't rest because who else is going to do it? And it kind of breathed this control this like, you know, like God needs me to do this when really it was our privilege to be able to step into this work. And it's taken a lot of years for us to stop being motivated purely on. I feel that God needs me here and more on like this is my joy. And because this is my joy and my invitation with God, it is also my joy, my invitation to rest when it's time to rest. And it's really hard because a lot of the good work that these faith driven entrepreneurs are doing, you are really passionate about seeing this come to fruition and you feel like you have to be there and you have to stay on and you have to grind to make it happen. And I think Jeremy and I learned firsthand what burnout felt like. You know, what the flip side of that was, and that really we've really hit rock bottom in different ways and burning out and realizing at the end of the day that God doesn't need us for this work, but he allows us to be in it. And because of that, we can have it with more open hands. If he takes this platform away from us, that's okay. Like, you know, but while we have it, it is our joy and motivation to work on it and to see fruit come from it.
Wen Li Lim: It's really about operating. I mean, what I'm hearing operating out of love and not fear because I think as the Asian culture as well, there's a lot of that underlying fear into so many things. You know, the fear of losing out. Yeah. I mean, over here in Singapore, there's so many things about, you know, the term [...]. I don't know if you've heard it basically say this, you're scared of losing [...], is that you're scared of dying. You're literally scared of everything. But really, you know, even the platform about just being an Asian-American and being in that space is not about fear of losing that or not doing it, but it's really out of the overpowering of love that you have for this community and that the love of God operating through you rather than fear driving it. Thank you for being so open with that. So what we usually do right now, so I'm just conscious of time as well is we kind of go into Rapid Fire. And Henry, I believe you're going to take the Rapid Fire today. Do you want to explain it.
Henry Kaestner: I'd be honored to? I'd be honored to it. Okay. So just on the lighter side, and by the way, just as we bridge into that I picked up the motive being joy and gratitude. And that's it's really profound. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. Lighter side, Jeremy, what's your go to music when you work out?
Jeremy Lin: Oh. Uh. Go to music when I work out. That's tough. I change every day. I'm, like, the most moody. My trainer always makes fun of me. He's like, I never know what you're going to listen to. I'm like, I don't know. It just depends on the day and the weather. I literally can't. And sometimes it's Chinese music, sometimes worship music, sometimes it's hip hop, sometimes it's jazz. Literally. I'm all over the place.
Henry Kaestner: But never seventies disco.
Jeremy Lin: That one. I'm not.
Patricia Sun: [...].
Henry Kaestner: I tell you, man ABBA, you will throw your trainer, your trainer may just quit if you do ABBA. Okay. You've lived in a lot of cities in the past few years. Which one has the best food?
Jeremy Lin: Woooo I think you got to go with New York City as like the obvious. But I think to me, huge, huge, underrated food cities. Toronto has amazing food. If you really know where to go, Toronto is really, really up there.
Henry Kaestner: So do you remember one of those places in Toronto? So I go there and you say, If you know where to go, I'm like, I have no idea where to go. Do you remember one of those places in Toronto?
Jeremy Lin: Oh, yeah, I have a whole list. This is how much of a foodie I always have lists and food tours, and I read them and I read each dish. But anyways, there's a great pizza spot called the sentence Pizza's Detroit style pizza. And then there's like, you know, a place called fisherman's. It's like, know deep fried lobster on a bed of French fries and you know, those are a couple of my go to is out there.
Henry Kaestner: Oh, that's awesome. So I don't know if this is on your list or not, but if you post basketball to Jeremy Lin food tours, I'm in. I'm in. Okay.
Jeremy Lin: Alright, I'm doing all right.
Henry Kaestner: Good. Let's make it happen. All right? As an athlete, I'm sure you find lots of value in being coaching, coaching others. What's the most encouraging thing that someone has said to you?
Jeremy Lin: The most encouraging thing that someone has said to me. I would say normally I don't really listen to a lot of people. You know, as an athlete, everyone's always kind of praising you and saying good stuff and it's kind of in one ear and out the other. But there's one time I got a letter from a fan, and the fan talked about how she was ready to quit on life and take her life. And that, you know, through watching a show that was I was on and then through learning more about my journey and different things like that, I get encourage her. And as she talked about where she was a year ago and where she was now, that's another moment when I think like, oh, wow, like God is doing things beyond like he doesn't need me, but he's using me to do something very, very beyond what I thought would be done. And that was one of the most encouraging things and most humanizing things that I felt like, Wow, you know what? Fame and this platform that I didn't always ask for, like wow God is doing special things.
Henry Kaestner: That is amazing.
Wen Li Lim: So we like to cap each episode off with just God's word. And what is God speaking to you and teaching you right now? Is there a verse or a passage of Scripture that's really stuck out to you recently?
Jeremy Lin: My recent one has been I am the Vine, you are the branches. If you abide or you remain in me, you will bear much fruit. Apart from me, you can do nothing. That is been a big one for me and you know, honing in on the word abide or to be or to remain like just being with God, you will naturally bear fruit like it just happens. It's not like I have to go bear the fruit myself or I have to be the source of life myself. I just need to abide.
Patricia Sun: And then mine would be second Corinthians 12 nine. My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Thinking a lot about this ten year journey. In the beginning when we really didn't know what we were doing, that was the verse sustained us. We were like, This is not our strength, but God's grace will sustain us. And it's very full circle to be able to still say that today, but in a different way.
Henry Kaestner: Well, Patricia and Jeremy, this has been really special. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for encouraging so much to take away from this for a faith driven entrepreneur, and identity and motive and things we struggle with and the concept and importance of. I hope our audience picked up on the concept of rest. Jeremy talked about that and Sabbath. And thank you. Thank you for spending time with us.
Patricia Sun: Thank you.
Wen Li Lim: Thank you so much.
Jeremy Lin: Thanks for having us.