Episode 119 - Workplace Relationships in a Remote World with Dr. Paul White
Today, we’re talking about love languages. Now, you may have heard of the five love languages, but that’s not where we’re going today. Instead, we’re talking to Dr. Paul White, co-author of The 5 Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace, to hear how the principles that are so useful in our marriages and relationships can also apply to our work and how we lead our businesses.
Dr. Paul White is a licensed psychologist who has worked with individuals, businesses, and families in a variety of settings for over 20 years. He consults with successful businesses and high net worth families, dealing with the relational issues intertwined with business and financial wealth.
As work continues to move toward virtual and remote platforms, the principles shared on this episode are even more important. As always, thanks for listening.
Episode Transcript
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Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur. We've got a special guest today. Paul White is on with us and he's got a great book and just a great ministry and expertise on something is superimportant for us as entrepreneurs, as we like to appreciate our employees. Many of our listeners are familiar with the five love languages that Gary Chapman has written about. Paul, tell us about the relationship between the five love languages that some of us might be familiar with and in the five languages of appreciation in the workplace, something you're passionate about. Tell us how they work together, please.
Paul White: So they're actually the same name, but differ in how they are presented or used in day life. So I pursued Dr. Chapman for about a year after having some situations in the workplace that I was consulting with and thought, you know, five languages, concepts could potentially work there. So I talk to him. We wound up developing an online assessment which became motivated by appreciation. That inventory had been taken by two hundred forty thousand people worldwide. Now we've developed some training materials as well as the book and wrote that together and reissued it and revised it last year in twenty nineteen. And it's gone on and done well.
Henry Kaestner: So give us an overview then give us an overview of how this collaboration together has worked and how it manifests itself in something in a workplace like for instance, that right now I'm thinking guys touch, you know, how does that what does that look like in the workplace in this in this era? Just help us understand.
Paul White: So words obviously is the easiest one. It's one that actually is preferred by most people in the workplace. About forty six percent say they prefer to get appreciation through words, which can be a compliment. It can be a thank you, can be an email personal. One of the things we know and actually people don't really like to hear, just thanks or good job, that's too general. And, you know, they really need to get specific about what they've done that you value and communicate that and also why it's important to you or the organization, the client. So that's pretty straightforward. Quality time is actually a very important language, especially for younger employees. It's about twenty six percent of all employees, but it's either spending time and getting sort of focused attention from your manager and supervisor, being able to talk and dialog about things or more and more for younger employees. It's about spending time with your colleagues. I tell leaders that just because when your team members has quality time as their primary language doesn't mean they want time with you. You may be good and great, but they're more interested in hanging out with their friends and going out afterwards. Acts of Service is not rescuing a low performing colleague. It's more. The easiest context is to think about when you're working in a time oriented, limited project that you need to get done. What's something that somebody could come alongside and do to help you get that done, whether that's, you know, sort of fend off interruptions and phone calls or manage small tasks that are more on the daily side that allows you to stay focused on the project and get that done. That's about 22 percent of the workforce. Tangible gifts is often sort of confused by business leaders. It's not bonuses raises, you know, the increase in compensation or big vacation packages. Really tangible gifts in our context are just small things that show that you're getting to know the other person at a personal level. So it could be bringing in their favorite coffee to be bringing in a magazine related to a hobby that they're interested in pursuing. And it's really in this case, it is the thought that counts. It's more about that you're getting to know them, thought about them, took time and effort to go get something that you thought they appreciate and bring that in physical touch, as you mentioned, is sort of the wacky one. But what we basically found is that physical touch in the workplace is largely spontaneous celebration. Right. It's a high five. When you finish a project, it's a fist bump and you solve the problem. Maybe a congratulatory handshake. Cross-culturally, our materials are in 22 languages, so a pat on the back is the most appropriate one. It differs regionally, you know, I mean, I lived in Atlanta for a while and they do a lot of sort of side hugs kind of things and. The Southern California bro hug in New York. You sort of look across the room and nod and say, hey, you know, that's about as close as I can. And it's only it's less than one percent of the population. So we don't focus a lot on that. But it's there and it happens. And for some people, it isn't.
Henry Kaestner: So you see two hundred forty thousand times. That's a lot of data. That's a lot that's out there. Clearly, you had a hypothesis going into this that some of these love languages would be a bigger deal than others. But what were some of the surprises? And maybe it's the mix. Or maybe it's now more of this geographical stuff that you've translated this into 22 different love languages. Maybe tell us about how different cultures think differently. Number of us are supporting Faith driven entrepreneurs overseas and approach those relationships much as if we approach a feature of a business here in the United States where some cultural differences you see. I should stop there for say and say, I know I just asked you lots of different things. Maybe I do that a lot. That's the problem I have. Tell me before we talk about the cultural and some of the different international lessons you've done. Two hundred forty thousand of these. You clearly had a working hypothesis going in about what you thought you'd see as you get this data back. But what was the surprise for you?
Paul White: There were really two surprises. One was that fairly quickly we got feedback. We originally started focusing primarily on managers and supervisors, fairly quickly got feedback that people wanted to know how to both appreciation and encourage their colleagues and peers in valued appreciation from peers. So there was less top down kind of emotion and direction and more just across the organization. And as I stated, it's really increased as the employee pool has gotten younger. So that's a big issue. The second one is that, you know, by definition, not everybody's skills appreciate in the same way. But we really found that it is not just the language that makes a difference, it's the specific action within the language and in our appreciation inventory after we identify a person's primary language and appreciation, that we then give them an action item list of 20, 25 items. Which of these really are meaningful to you? We take quality time. One of the items is go to lunch and talk about work.
The next one is go to lunch and not talk about work. And then we also let people choose with whom or from whom they want those actions. So they may want to go to lunch with their colleagues or they're fine with going with their supervisors. So we need to get really more specific than just time, because a lot of times people would say, what was I supposed to do? Other people like to get together after work and go for a walk. So it's about being specific because if you're not specific, you can still get in the right language area. But you miss the target as far as cross culturally.
We do have a large group that have taken our inventory and used raw materials in Singapore. And so we recently published some research comparing the results of what people prefer in Singapore versus the United States and sort of Western Europe. And we found that, whereas clearly words of affirmation are the most important in the American culture. In Singapore, it was acts of service. That was the number one. We did some research. We have some traders that are there. And having people having your supervisor especially help you out and help you make sure you get your work done is really important and valued by them. So it's less about words. And, you know, we found that somewhat true with Chinese both in China and in Hong Kong, that it's less about words. I don't trust your words, but, you know, the actions seem more meaningful to them.
Rusty Rueff: You know, it feels like, Paul, that, know, the cultural emphasis is a really important one as we think about working globally. But in some ways, our work culture is changing all around us right now. Right. We're going into a new way of working, a new culture of working, whether it's remotely or in different ways. What is some of the languages of appreciation look like in this potential new world that we're sitting in?
Paul White: Well, it's a great point because we are moving into a new, I think, era of work situations that whether or not, you know, the large group of remote employees continue at the same rate. I think we're going to come out of this with more people at least working some time remotely because we're doing some research right now and finding that people really are enjoying at least the first part of this for a lot of people because they're funny. It really creates a lot more time for them, for relationships and other personal things rather than commuting. And also, we're finding that people are reporting they're equally productive. And so it makes sense to let people least work one or two days, maybe a week remotely. We did some research a couple of years ago about comparing remote employees versus onsite employees, about how to show appreciation, what they ignite and. Things we found was words decrease, time increases as far as what they prefer.
And specifically, it's really important to them to connect by video occasionally that there's a qualitative difference in communication between emails, text, even talking on the phone versus connecting face to face, at least occasionally. And that's true when you do sort of team and conference calls. And so making time for that. The other part that we found is that with remote employees, that you really have to be more intentional and proactive in communicating and showing appreciation or encouragement because you don't have the sort of spontaneous interactions where you walk by some in his office or you see him in the break room or coming in from lunch.
So you don't have those sort of little opportunities to check in or just chat. And so you have to be intentional about setting up sometimes to talk with them and could be right before a conference call or after. Or separately. And the other part about it is that you really need to focus on them as a person.
I guess one of the key emphases that we have is that appreciation isn't just about work in performance. It's about them as a person that people have value regardless of whether they're a high performer or not. And so that if you only communicate with people about the task in the checklist and what's getting done on a project, you sort of wind up deteriorating into teaching or treating them just like a production unit or a work unit rather than a person. And so, you know, in the break room, you might talk about what you did over the weekend or how to do it, but that typically doesn't come across or have opportunity in most work conferences. And so it's important to set aside time to do that, to talk to them. Now, which one? And also share lots of times we can turn into a little bit of interrogator. Feels like that we're keep asking them questions, but we don't share about ourselves. And so it's important, you know, if it's going to be a relationship, it needs to be two way. And so you share about yourself as well. And the other part, again, about remote employees is that they really do value connecting with their peers.
Rusty Rueff: You know, one of the things your idea of quality time is one of those languages of appreciation that really resonates with me, because the only thing that we all share exactly the same is the amount of time we have. Right. And so if I want to disrespect someone, I waste their time. Right. I don't give them quality time. And maybe one of the benefits is going to come out of all of this is that we are going to connect more so on video than on phone calls or someone say the other day, I'll never go back and do a phone conference ever again, because at least in the video, I am held accountable to paying attention to what someone is doing on the other side versus on a phone call I could use to email and I can quote unquote, multitask. And, you know, maybe it's time for that to go away. So it could be something in there.
Paul White: We've found that interestingly language that people value the most as far as receiving appreciation and encouragement. And I pretty much equate those two. They're a little bit different in the time focus appreciations about the past. You appreciate somebody for what they've done or they demonstrate the encouragement is coming alongside in the present and the future to encourage them and help support them. The actions are the same. But just the focus a little bit different. But we found also that a person's primary language of appreciation is also the language you're most easily offended in. So somebody values appreciation through words. They're also sensitive to verbal critique or correction quality time. The way those people are often is by either continually to reschedule time saying you're not that right or to not give them your full attention and you're distracted with a thing right now.
Rusty Rueff: Paul, some people just they mix up the idea of appreciation and recognition. They're two different things, right?
Paul White: They really are. They overlap, but they are different. Recognition traditionally is about recognizing somebody for getting something done. And when in the business world it's set up and implemented correctly, it really does a good job of motivating and rewarding behaviors that you want to see. The problem is, is that we're people we're not just production units. And people have value high performance. And also most recognition programs only use two of the five languages. They only use words, some kind of reward. And let me just say this. Every time I speak or train them, ask this question. How many people really don't want to go up in front of a large group to be recognized?
40 percent of the general population absolutely do not want to go up. Now you get administrative assistance. It's more like 60 percent. The problem is high performing salespeople like to be out front. They're like, hey, bring it on the TV cameras. And so, you know, they love it. But the people that work with them and support them don't. And so we have to be careful that we want to show it not only for doing well, but there are characteristics that we can have that we can appreciate, even though it's not really performance. For example, I like to work with cheerful people, more than grumbly people, you know.
And so, you know, they don't just like getting more done. But they're a a lot more fun to be around. And so you can call attention to that. The other issue that's really important from a business point of view is recognition programs only hit the top ten or fifteen percent of your top performers. And it's sort of the same people over and over. You didn't have a big middle group, 50 to 60 percent of your employees, good people working or coming and doing the job, but they don't hear anything. And we've got research shows. Seventy nine percent of the people who leave a job voluntarily cite a lack of appreciation as the main reason for their. Most managers and owners think that people leave for more money. That's clearly not the case. We got clear research. That's not true. And so you're putting yourself at risk by not having a good, solid team members feeling like they're valued and they're going to be looking to go elsewhere.
Henry Kaestner: All right. So we live in this world of KPI's and OKR's and goals and objectives, and everyone wants to take those and just tighten them down to, you know, what's the ROI? Now intrinsically, we know that there's got to be an ROI on appreciation, but research shows that, too. Let's hear you talk a little bit about that, because I know our listeners are going to say, oh, I want to go do this. But, you know, what about everybody around looking at me and saying, well, where's the hard results?
Paul White: Yeah. Well, we've got great research. And in fact, in the more recent version of our book that came on 2019, there's a whole chapter chapters who are alive appreciation. And it's cross-cultural and global as well, that we know that when team members feel valued, first of all, it's clearl. Gallup in their work with over a million employees worldwide, then that appreciation is one of the top four factors for employee engagement. So anything that employee engagement shows, appreciation flows into that. So we know that absenteeism goes down, tardiness goes down, staff turnover goes down, which is the largest nonproductive cost in most businesses.
We know that conflict goes down. Customer service ratings go up. Employee theft goes down on the job. Accidents go down. Managers like their jobs more. Productivity goes up. And also profitability goes up.
And so it's not about making people feel good. You know, if that happens, that's great. But that's not really the goal. The goal is to help affirm the value of your people so that you develop a healthy, effective working environment. People work together well when they feel valued and trust one another. And you sort of diminish the competition in all those kinds of things that can get in the way of the team working together well. And I tell you what. If you've ever been into a workplace where people feel that it's a fun place to visit because it's just common and they're having a good time, they're getting stuff done, you know. But it clearly makes the company and the organization more functional and effective.
Henry Kaestner: This has been really helpful. I think that everybody gets this at some level. What I'd love to hear from you now is how you make this actionable. Maybe you could do that through the lens of a couple of companies that you've worked with taking these findings, these understandings, and then contextualizing it for the individual business and how to get started.
Paul White: Well, one of the interesting things is we find it's most successful to start in the middle of most organizations, unless it's a really small organization where either the director of the CEO has direct contact with sort of the front line supervisors and down that we don't even target the C suite too much. We go into the middle level management, the supervisors, because they're the ones that see the discouragement from their team members and see that they need to find a way to support and encourage them. And so lots of. Were brought in by just a supervisor manager who found her book, The Five Languages Appreciation Workplace Read, it took that inventory. There's a code that comes with the book that you can see the inventory in the results. Talk to their team members, maybe shared it with the H.R. director. And then sometimes I'm brought in and I'll talk to the big group of leaders and so forth and sort of give them the vision as well as sort of a common language, but also professionally. I grew up in nonprofit social service world where people give a lot. They don't get paid much. Not much prestige. And there's no money for training. So I created a low cost training jets along with an online train, the trainer resource, so that people internally as well as external consultants couldn't go in. It takes about two hours to go through and then they have essentially a kit, a set of videos, facilitators, guy handouts, follow up emails that they can take their team through either and a half day workshop or a series of one hour kinds of things. And then we have all kinds of free videos and articles and podcasts, webinars that people can access to sort of keep it going. And so one of the other suppressive, Don, is it's not about the industry. We didn't think really that sort of the tough guy industries would be that interested, manufacturing, law enforcement, so forth. But it's really more about the supervisor or the leader. If people, regardless of their industry, see the value of their employees and the relationships, it works. We have a mining company in South Dakota that's been using us for over two years. It's now part of their onboarding process. And the guys with the hardhats wanted to get stickers with their language symbols and did that. We worked with non-profits and ministries in inner city schools. A lot of hospitals, long term care facilities, essentially places where people really need emotional and relational support to keep going. And more and more, that's a lot of places and it's been fun to see and fund to help them tailor the concepts. A concept seemed to be pretty generic in the sense of applicable to lots of different settings. But then help them figure out what does this look like, what's an active service look like in a hospital versus if you're a public school teacher versus if you're a manufacturing supervisor and helping them figure that out.
Henry Kaestner: So I love the illustration of the guys with the hardhats, with their love language printed on it. I think that's a really cool illustration. Before I hand you back off, the Rusty closes out. Since you've been doing this, give me give us your funniest story from being in the workplace and seeing this roll out.
Paul White: Well, I have to tell you, the the thing that sticks out like so there's a couple of one is just the issue of going up front to receive recognition. I had one interesting new teacher, she said in her Southern accent. She said, you can give me an award you can recognize, but you're going to have to carry me up on stage to get me there, you know? And this was like, I'm not doing that thing. And then sort of a sad one is the examples that people give of inappropriate uses of gifts by companies.
I mean that I had one fairly large, well-known retail food kind of place that said, you know, we just feel sort of like walking billboards because everything that we get is corporate, where it's all got a logo on it and that's all that you get. One person said, you know, I thought my supervisor's trying to kill me because I'm a serious diabetic and gave me a box of candy for Christmas then, you know, just wasn't thinking it through. And I had one group tell me that their company had been to a convention and had no marketing materials and they put out on the set. Hey, just to show you how much we appreciate it, there's a bunch of leftover marketing materials in the break room and come and give what everyone. They're all free, you know, and it's sort of like, OK, that's sort of what they think about us. So I've got more of those. But we won't go there on that. You know, a friend of ours, a mutual friend of ours, and Pete his management team, and he said, you know, my language is get stuff done. Don't tell me stuff. Don't give me stuff. Just help me. Yeah. Take things off my plate. And I know you're on my team.
Henry Kaestner: I can hear him saying that right now.
Rusty Rueff: We're going to come to a close, Paul. But I just thought of a question. You know, we hear a lot now about the one percent, one percent, one percent. Marc Benioff and Salesforce, one percent we'll give back in profits, one percent in revenue and one percent of our employee time into service. And we have companies here in the Bay Area that are trying to adopt that for their own companies. Is that a language of appreciation?
Paul White: Well, you know what? It may be, but I don't think so. One of the things that we found is tried to apply this model to different places when we were hired by a major tech up in the Bay Area to work with a virtual team internationally that had never met each other. And I said, I'm not sure this work. And we tried and it didn't. And then I've had. People that are salespeople say, you know, how do I use this to get new customers? And I really come to the belief and I am willing to learn differently if the data's there. The evidence is there, but I really believe that appreciation is based in a personal relationship. You can recognize somebody for doing something and getting a job done. But to really value and appreciate them, I think you need to have a relationship that could be a new relationship. But like in the virtual team, the problem was they didn't know each other. It felt very weird. Felt very superficial and put on. And it didn't last because it didn't mean anything to anybody. And so while you can serve other people and in general show appreciation, let's say, for, you know, policemen in front line responders in a general way. I think at least appreciation, authentic as appreciation as we talk about it, really requires some level of personal relationship.
Rusty Rueff: That's a great distinction that we should take all of us take away and think about how do we make this personal? And to that point, as we close, we miss our co-host, William, who's not here with us today, usually asks this question, but we're going to turn it to you personally. What is God saying in your life right now from scripture or any place? What are you hearing?
Paul White: Well, you know where I am in the Midwest, we're behind other people as far as the COVID the impact on the workplace. But the disruption of that and the disruption in our business, because people aren't really focused on this, they're focused on surviving and so forth. It's really an issue of, for me, not gaining my worth and value or perceived worth of value from achievement and achieving goals—whether that's book sales or speaking events or whatever.
But just that, you know, God does really bring the results. I can work really, really hard. And, you know, if it's not the time and place, the results are going to be there. And that's OK. You know, I am here and I'm accepted by our father. He loves me, loves us. And I'm really having to think through and work through that because I see that a lot of my self value has been related to achievement. And it's going to go with.
Rusty Rueff: Amen, that's a good word. Thank you, Paul. Really great to have you as a guest.
Paul White: Thank you.