Podcast Episode 58 - Becoming Bilingual: Fluency in Metrics and Story with Matt Bird


Today we’re connecting with Matt Bird, who is based in the United Kingdom. Matt is the author of several books, including Relationology, The Secrets of Story, and Freedom: How to Live Your Life for Jesus Free From Anxiety and Worry. Another one of his books, Transformation, takes a look at how God is connecting churches across communities, cities, and countries to bring about social, political, economic, cultural, and spiritual transformation. This book is the product of Matt’s work with businesses and churches in helping them both improve one another as they increase their impact, which is the subject of this episode.

In addition to writing books, Matt runs a company called Cinnamon International. What they’re doing is looking at how cities and churches can work together to increase their respective impact. In this episode, Matt breaks down what churches and businesses are good at and how they can help each other. All you have to do is listen to just the handful of stories he shared with us today to see that that venture has been extremely successful in both its growth and impact.

Matt’s work gives him a very unique perspective on how movements begin in a city, and then what it takes to see something grow beyond our immediate sphere of influence to catalyze much bigger change. When we spoke with him, we got a chance to hear how entrepreneurs and business leaders can work with their churches to drive this kind of change.

We were all encouraged to find out how Matt sees entrepreneurs using their skills of measuring impact to help churches become “bilingual.” What he meant was churches are so often great at telling stories about how their work changes lives, but when it comes to measuring impact they often lack the skills and vocabulary to do so. Matt has witnessed countless business leaders and entrepreneurs come in and help churches communicate the numbers and stories that show the effect they have in the community. It’s a great example of how the body of Christ works together!

And lastly, Matt provided exceptional insight into a profound model of social change. His approach to sharing secrets is countercultural, but, as he pointed out, there’s no reason for churches to continually reinvent the wheel in every city. Instead, he points out how useful it is to look to other organizations that are doing great things and how choosing to partner with them instead of creating similar initiatives to compete against them is often the most effective way to serve.

We hope you enjoy this episode! At the very least, we think Matt’s polished English accent will be enough to keep you engaged. But we also know that his experience and insight will be helpful for entrepreneurs and business leaders everywhere.

Useful Links:

Matt Bird Amazon Author Page

Matt Bird’s Personal Website

Cinnamon International

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